With more states switching to “shall issue” carry permits, more citizens are carrying concealed weapons. Consequently there are more small guns on the market, and in larger calibers. This week I look at two baby 9 mms. I was curious to see how well such small guns soaked up recoil. I found that recoil was manageable for both guns. Experienced shooters shouldn’t have any problems.
Kel-Tec P11
The P11 has three things going for it: size, weight, and price. Cost is around $250, which is amazing for a 9 mm. Granted, it doesn’t look expensive, either, but it’s a lot of gun for the money.
The P11 was clearly designed for concealed duty. A few years ago, a gun this small would have been chambered in .32 or .380, but the P11 shoots the more powerful 9 mm. Thanks to a polymer frame, it weighs just 14 ounces, which is lighter than all but the titanium models of Smith &Wesson’s venerable J-Frame .38s, long the standard in hideout guns. Even with a full magazine the weight is just 20 ounces.
The P11 uses a double-action only trigger: each shot requires a long, heavy trigger pull. A DAO trigger is safer, since the long, heavy pull makes you very aware of your trigger pull. This could be a good feature if you’re pocket carrying (it means you’re less likely to give yourself a 9 mm vasectomy). Small as these guns are, though, a holster of some kind is desirable.
The trigger pull, for my tastes, is just too long. The anticipation of waiting for the trigger to finally fall is ruinous to accuracy. For best accuracy, you’re not supposed to know exactly when the gun is going to go off, but the trigger pull shouldn’t be so long that you have to wonder if it’s ever going to go off.
2011 UPDATE: A while back I shot a friend’s P11. For whatever reason I found the trigger on his to be remarkably good. I shot freakishly well with it, in fact. It’s possible the trigger benefits from a break-in period.
Glock 26
The Glock 26 has the standard Glock trigger, which is pretty good. Like the Kel-Tec, the trigger pull is the same weight and length from shot to shot. Unlike the Kel-Tec, the trigger weight and length are very reasonable.
The 26 is built on Glock’s subcompact frame. If you have a larger Glock in 9 mm the 26 will accept the same magazines. The unit I shot was equipped with a Pearse magazine grip extension, which made the handle long enough to be comfortable. One Glock isn’t very different from the rest, so I won’t repeat myself. If you’re interested you can read my last Glock review.
Conclusion
The Kel-Tec is a decent gun for the money, and has a good reputation for reliability. If you can train yourself to overcome the long trigger, it’s a bargain. It’s especially good if you need a gun that small and light. However, if I’m ever shopping for a baby 9 for holster use and have the extra 250 bucks, I’d gladly spend it on the Glock 26. The difference in construction quality and trigger make it worthwhile. My friend who shot both guns with me agreed: with money no object, the Glock 26 is the better gun.
Followup Notes
This weekend I went with SayUncle to christen his new Glock 30. The Glock 30 is the .45 caliber version of the 26, and is similarly impressive. The other week I reviewed the Walther P22 and mentioned that a woman in my CCW class had one. I questioned how good of a choice that was for a defensive weapon. Apparently she did, too, because when SayUncle and I saw her at the range this weekend she had traded in the P22 for a Glock 26 and loved it.
| Glock 26 | Kel-Tec P11 | |
|---|---|---|
| Capacity | 10+1 | 10+1 |
| Barrel | 3.46 in. | 3.1 in. |
| Length | 6.29 in. | 4.6 in. |
| Height | 4.17 in. | 4.3 in. |
| Width | 1.18 in. | 1 in. |
| Weight Empty | 19.75 oz | 14 oz |
| Street Price | $500 | $250 |
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.380 is really a subpar round. Most that I have shot will jam due to poor spring strength and the cartridge simply doesn’t have the chutzpah to force the slide back consistantly.
I had 2 Glock 26′s when they first came out. I really didn’t get comfortable with the wide grip, and the lighter trigger was disconcerting to this non-professional pistol owner. I know they are extremely popular with the law enforcement community, but I think it’s a pistol you need to shoot and carry on a regular basis, as opposed to occasional concealed carry. I wound up buying a Sig P239 and found it to be ideal for me. I shot the Glock and Sig to compare the accuracy and it was excellent on both. I sold the Glocks. Recently I purchased a P11 by KelTec, and I find it to be a great firearm for the money. I’ve only shot 100 rds or so thru it, but it fed SJHP’s and ball without a bobble. Within 5-7 yards it is quite accurate, but for greater distance it’s not. But for self defense within 7 yards it is great. I think the KelTec product is one of those raritys where you actually get more than you paid for. Just my opinion..
I was interested in a Springfield Xd-9 and the Glock26. I went to the indoor range near me and rented both. Using same ammo at 9 and 21 feet it was no contest. Bought the 26. The long trigger pull on the Xd-9 had me jerking and flinching. The Glock was smooth and competent. Nines, tens and x’s right off the line.
Hey wats up?
im a fan of glocks…and i buy magazines every so often to catch up….but i was wondering if you could send me an email explaining what a “baby 9mm” looks like and its properties…i am not familiar with it but i was told it is a very versatile gun and that it can shoot a variety of bullets, such as hollow tips and other. i would appreciate the knowledge you would be sharing with me about this pistol. thank you.
I’d have to agree, as a retired cop. I’ve been carrying a gun for about 30 years , and I would have to say the Glock, is a much smoother gun to shoot, then the kel tec, but I found, with practice the kel is accurate. You just must get used to the trigger pull and that takes time it’s lighter , and it’s more concealable than the Glock. And that’s the bottom line. By the way , does anyone know about hr 218, and is it effective. Now. Thank you
I own a P-11, and love the handling and punch it provides, I dont mind the long trigger pull, i have become pretty used to long pulls in double action on bigger more powerful guns, like taurus model 65 .357 mag, wich is actually lighter, and a few others. I have become really proficient in close combat shooting practice with it, especially considering the grip and look of it is sort of like and old friend, only smaller (hint hint-good ol 1911 .45acp!). And the P-11 easily eats up the P+P loads available now, like Black Hills 115 JHP+P, Mag-Tec and Remington, but doesnt seem to like Selier and Ballot, the primmers sometime need a “double tap” to go off, apparently a common problem, even tho i’ve never had that problem in my .45 acp. the Glock, its a line that i just am not really fond of, looks chincy, chamber looks sloppy, especially the loading ramp, i dont like how the shell is exposed out the bottom of the chamber by the shallow ramp. and it doesnt feel right to me, but thats just me many might say, well so be it
I recently traded the .380 kel-tec in for the
p-11, have not shot it yet but have noticed the long trigger pull just in learning the gun. I was figuring it would be a problem as far as accuracy. But I got the gun for concealed carry c.q.b. situations. I think it will do the trick. In the summertime I like the small in the pants holster, vacevasectomy vs. long trigger pull? Hmm.. If I can get to the truck the 1911 is always there anyway. I also own a Glock 22 and dont have a single complaint. Owned a Glock 36 for a about a year and traded it off as well as the model 21 to fat for my hand. The 36 was a little jumpy to me, but in .45 a great gun for carry. Also love the 17 & 19 which buddys own. If the 26 was smaller I would have bought it, the p-11 sold me there. Glock needs to continue to make the compact & sub-compact models smaller. It’s just hard to beat a Glock.
I bought a P-11.. Though trigger pull was really long when I first bought it, oil and shooting has gotten it to seem shorter…
Not to bad on accuracy… Bullets go pretty close to where I aim them…
I’m going to buy a walther’s p-22 in a few…
Ryan,
Get the P-22 with suppressor atatchment on barrel. Nice weapon, you will enjoy. Got a buddy with one it’s a tack driver for sure. He has a suppressor on it. This is a very nice shooting gun. Dime sized groups. If not round on round.
I just purchased the 26 as the first Glock to my collection. One cannot argue with the refinement of a Glock over other autos. At the range, I steadily moved the target from 7 feet out to 20 feet with little change in accuracy. After just three boxes of average grade ball ammo, I was able to launch 10 rounds into a six inch group at 25 yards, which is quite impressive for a gun it’s size. In all reality, one will never engage at distances much beyone six feet, but it’s nice to know that the refinement pays off.
The Glock 26 is the best gun I’ve ever fired. The Glock line of pistols has to be one of, if not, the best line of pistols out as of current. I recommend them highly to anyone.
just bought p11 9mm have shot 300 shots no jams. new concealead liscened. been shooting guns since i was 8 love it , i have been practicing , the trigger was totally different than i was used too, but now pretty accurate about 15 yrd,sfor the price its awesome it packs a hell of a punch i recommend.
OK guys, but the Glock 26 is BIG. I know it is smaller than other Glocks. But, carrying a Glock 26 is not easy in the summer. It is relatively heavy and wide, compared to the P11. I have tried several ways to carry the G26, it’s too obvious in an ankle holster, any holster that leaves it above the belt line means its handle will make obvious dents in your shirt, holsters that place it inside the waistband under the belt line work, but then it becomes very uncomfortable, since it is so large. I hear good and bad on the P11 realiabilty. But, the size makes it an interesting choice. My Glock works great ofcourse, always has, but if it’s not with me….. then what good is it going to be.
how can i break down my p11 9mm to clean it out?
p.s and how can go about geting a slinceer
9mm Glocks rule to roost! I shoot a model 34 in IDPA and open carry my model 17 when “in the woods”. For concelled carry I like the model and 19 and the little 26. However, for summer carry and times when wardrobe malfuctions are forebiden, I actaully carry a SW J frame snub in .38 spl. Yeah that 26 is a fat bastard. I actually find it easier to conceal the model 19 Glock in an IWB holster. On the down-side, I had a Glock 27 in 40SW that jammed all the time, even when broken in! I don’t have it anymore. The only Glocks that have really proven themselves are the 9mm bread….rule on!
I own a Keltec P11, Kahr P9-Covert, and Glock 22 and love them all for different reasons. The Kahr is very compact, easy to conceal, accurate, & comfortable to shoot.
The Keltec is a little thicker than the Kahr, a little more accurate, but kicks a bit more. With the Keltec accessory belt hook the P11 allows IWB carry without the discomfort and thickness of an IWB holster. This P11 with clip is actually slimmer than the Kahr inside a leather holster, plus you get 12+1 rounds in the Keltec P11!
Had my Glock 26 for 4 years as an off duty pistol. Over 2k rounds, no jams. I have a variety of concealment holsters – Gould and Goodrich Small of Back (least favorite), Bianchi inside the waistband style (like it – untucked/baggy shirt needed) and a Fobus ankle holster (love it – bootcut or baggy jeans are a must – I’ve got pretty large calves, to “blend” in with, and haven’t noticed the previously mentioned problems about ankle concealment). I’m sporting Trijicon night sights, a jentra plug, various mag extensions, and an A&G Mag Spacer (sleeve that fits over a 17rnd mag to give it a full grip feel). I highly recommend the Mag Spacer as a $10 full grip conversion – especially if you can only afford one “all around” pistol, or just want more rounds per mag at the range. Great gun – very reliable – 9mm is cheap to shoot – the “jack of all trades” among glocks.
i have had two p-11s over the years and i think the are super little guns for the money.set up a target and pull your gun and fire into target as fast as you can at 5 yards and then repeat with your full size and you might be surprized,i was,i score more centered hits at a faster time,and that is all a kel-tec was designed to do.
I recently purchased the sig sauer p239 as a off duty gun. I like the quality and reliability of sig,but the gun is too big for a off duty. I am considering geting rid of it. I cant make up my mind between the glock 26 or karh k9.I love the karh because of its size, very concealable and i love the rubber grip. The only problem is that karh had problems with the trigger pressure and it was discontinue. However, they might bring it back. I not so crazy about the look of the glock, but i have heard nothing about praises. I love small sub-compact stainless guns. what should i do?
Kahrs do not have the best rep for reliability. Some are reliable and some aren’t. The only one I’ve shot wasn’t.
The Kahr is definitely slimmer than the Glock. My thing with a Kahr is that it has such low magazine capacity that I just don’t see the point. I’d rather have a snubnose .38 revolver and be sure it would go bang everytime without jamming.
If it was me I’d go with the G26.
I own a P11 and its a jam n nitemare terrible triger pull but makes up for it in size power with hps basicly its a litle up close n personal weapon thatl get tha job done long as u put it in tha right direction at the right time n can borrow tha money ta purchase tha thang its a suprise for folks hew judge guns by their sizespecialy ina defensive tyme sure others are beter but not for tha buks
I am looking at the glock 26,springfield xd sub compact,s & w M&p and the new taurus millinium p111.Any comments on which would be best for carry and the range and also reliable.
I am looking at the glock 26,springfield xd sub compact,s & w M&p and the new taurus millinium p111.Any comments on which would be best for carry and the range and also reliable.
I owned the early P11 since the 90′s, with a SW5915 as they take the same mags. The P11′s a great gun, I don’t ever remember it jamming, etc. once and it got very used, though my S&W did 2 or 3 times (stovepipe). I hated the trigger pull, I could have lightened it-also it muzzle flips to 45 deg. – but I traded them both in for a glock-very hard to give them up, both fantastic designs. The P11 is fine for it’s intended use. I want to get the .380 keltec, but not go under 9mm-will have to use a mix of the highest perf. HP rounds..or I’ll just get their new PF9 seven round single stack 9mm, the slimmest/lightest 9 in the world:
“The shorter trigger system with integral hammer block and the extraction system are adapted from the P-3AT.” (P3AT .380 at 5lbs pull rather than 9lbs. for the p11)
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.html
Since the reason for comparing these two guns was concealed carry, you should have tried carrying each for a week or so. I have had a G27 and a Kel-tec P11. In fact, I sold the Glock and bought the Kel-tec because the Glock is too thick and bulky for an off-duty or CCW gun. I felt and looked like I was carrying a full-size G22 in my waistband. The “mini” Glocks are just the full-size model with the barrel and grip shortened. They are just as thick as their larger cousins. In CCW, a slimmer gun is better. Especially if you live here in Florida where shorts and T-shirts are the norm. Glock says the G26 and G27 are 1.18″ thick. This is not so. This figure is the thickness of the slide. The grip is considerably thicker. The Kel-tec is very thin for a double-stack 9mm and I’ve had none of the discomfort carrying it that I had with the Glock. Now that the PF-9, single-stack Kel-tec is out, I plan the buy one. As for the trigger pull, anyone who has fired a revolver should have no problem with the Kel-tec trigger.
Just came from the store with a new G26. I love how it feels and seems to conceal just fine. Can’t wait to shoot it. My gun dealer says its great and that ill love it….
I owned a Kel-Tec P-11 for over five years. Towards the end of my ownership I experienced numerous problems. One thing in Kel-Tec’s favor though is their warranty and replacement parts policy. I had a casing ejector break so I had my local gun shop mail it in to Kel-Tec for repair. When I recieved it back I was surprised to find all new lower workings, a new barrel and a new slide. Only the serial number stamped metal frame and polimer grip were original. Later I had a hammer axis pin break and after that a hammer spring. A quick call to the factory and on each occaision and the parts were sent to me at no cost. Not only did I get what I asked for but they sent double replacements, two axis pins, two springs. I did opt to pay for speedy shipping though. I finally traded my Kel-Tec in for a Springfield XD 9MM service maodel. I love my XD as much as I did the Kel-Tec but I do kind of wish I had kept the P-11 for a backup piece. The small size and lightweight make for comfy ankle holstering. All in all the pistol was great but could not tolerate sustained firing of hot rounds, each of the failures resulted after firing higher pressure rounds. In addition I found the plastic sights very easy to damgaed and move accidentally.
I have carried the Kel-Tec P11 concealed for about 7 years. Saved me three times 1. attempted robbery while fishing along Shenandoah River in VA, 2. in a parking garage at the Omni in Durham, NC and 3. when a drunk neighbor decided he was going to aerate my house. The P11 is not a sexy weapon, and you won’t impress your friends with it. What it lacks in curb appeal it more than makes up for with its ease of concealment, comfort to carry and accuracy to about 30 ft. A friend who also carries the P11 and is accurate at 50 ft. I honestly don’t know how he does it. You must have adequate range time to become proficient due to the looooong trigger pull. The first hundred rounds went wide right, until I got used to the mechanics. You also have to hold the pistol firmly in your hand so the recoil can push the slide far enough to eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next round (range time, range time, range time). The finger extension on the magazine also dramatically improves grip and accuracy. It can handle the +P rounds, but it would knock my frame pins loose. It was easily fixed with a small drop of locktite. I don’t like the +P rounds, but that is only a personal preference. I paid $229 for mine when they were introduced to the Northern VA area. I haven’t seen them less than $259 these days.
So I just bought a G26, and I have owned an XD 9mm before. I just wanted to say that they are both excellent firearms. I owned the service model XD with a V10 port. Though it was very loud due to the port, it was deadly accurate. 150 rounds at 25 in a group about 3 1/2 inches. The G26 is right about the same. I went with the Glock because the subcompact XD just didn’t feel as good in my hand. I love both, and I have problems with both. I love the ease of break down on the glock, but I miss the grip saftey of the XD.
I also have a Keltec PF9. I saw earlier someone was complaining about the Kelty’s. Give it some time. I used to flinch and shake with the trigger at first. Couldn’t believe I paid money for that gun…then I shot it more. And more and more. I love it now. I am a good shot with all handgun, not to sound cocky, but I am. 9mm’s are my favorite, and what I shoot most, but I am small groupings with everything I shoot. The Keltec has a great grouping up to and including about 10 yards. Though it didn’t at first. Don’t give up on the gun.
Man if you ever get a 25 or 22 38 thats used for cheap holla at me 982-1138 or dinopenny_09@yahoo.com
I own an xd45 with an 4″ barrel as well as a p1445 limited dao, both of witch I love. Altho, they are hard to carry in 80+ temps. I’m thinking of selling the xd for a kel tek 9mm p11.I have carried many pistols for ccw including a tok. I am not a big man by any means, 6ft 140lbs and straight as a pole, liking iwb on my right side I want something smaller, the can help protect me and my 4 kids, they can have the wife. IMO it doesn’t matter what you carry, or how it looks as long as it works.
I owned and carried concealed a Glock 19 for 3.5 years while in the military. I was trained as a small firearms instructor and so found myself at the range 2-3 times a week. I would both instruct and enjoy the benefits of having both military and police ammo available for my usage (I was a desk officer in the military and volunteered with the police force as a range instructor.) My G19 was fired on average 500 round a week for at least 2 of the years that I owned it and all I ever did was clean and oil it. Oh yeah and replace the spring about 2.5 years into owning it. I carried my G19 concealed in the small of my back and no one ever noticed it untill it was pulled which outside of the range only happened twice (thank God). I only sold it because I moved back to the states and into a college dorm and that was a big no no.
I recently purchased a p-11 and have fired around 300 rds. and have had no trouble so far. The trigger is a little long but once I used it more and more I got the feel for it and I like it, so far no problems.
Seems the main thing is how you take care of your gun and keep it clean.
I am enjoying my Kel-tec P11 and have a Fobus paddle holster for it (easy to remove and insert). I definitely recommend the grip extension and the trigger shoe for the gun.
Browsing through the site has been fun, I work at a Gun Shop, own both G26 and P11, 26 in a paddle holster, and P11 on the ankle, for years and years now. For what they are there for… getting me home every night, they are tremendous! If I was asked of problems, I only have 2. The Kel-Tec doesn’t like to eject, (drop), empty mags, they need to be pulled out. The second… most of you really need spell check! I’ve got a #&%*@$% headache!
AMEN Brett!
I have both the Glock 26 and the Kel-Tec P11. The Glock is far superior. Much more accurate and zero failures or jams. None. Not so for the Kel-Tec plus it kicks like a drunken mule! As stated by others, the trigger pull is way too long and it is nowhere near as accurate as the Glock. It is easier to conceal but that’s about it. I would definitely go with the Glock. You get what you pay for.
I got my P11 in 08 , it has been in its box ever scence purchased . It’s now 2011 May and I took the pistol out to shoot . To my suprise it will not rechamber a new round when shot ! Any help please . Thanks Dave
The P11 was my first pistol, I bought it lightly used about 10 years ago when I was in college. I didn’t have a ton of money and I wanted a pistol that I could conceal and the kel-tec was perfect. I have abused the gun really and for the most part it has been reliable. Only recently when I over lubricated the gun did the takedown pin start working its way out while shooting. Definitely not good but probably an easy fix problem and considering how many rounds I’ve fired through it (I can’t even guess how many) I think its been a decent gun. I used to be pretty good at shooting it but now I’ve gotten spoiled by SA triggers and the Glock with the shorter and lighter trigger definitely is more appealing. I don’t think there is much doubt that overall the Glock is a better gun but it is more expensive and bigger which is an issue.