From the FBI’s notes on the 10 mm (PDF link).
The fear of over-penetration is a misconception, which was created back when law enforcement was trying to overcome misinformed public resistance to the use of hollowpoint ammunition. In the process, we began to believe it ourselves. First, our lawyers are unaware of any sucessful legal action resulting from the injury of a bystander due to a round over-penetrating the subject. We are aware of numerous incidents of Agents/officers being killed because their round did not penetrate enough (Grogan and Dove, for example). Further, if you examine shooting statistics you will see that officers hit the subject somewhere around 20-30% of the time. Thus 70-80% of shots fired never hit their intended target, and nobody ever worries about them – only the ones that might “over-penetrate” the bad guy. Third, as our testing shows, even the most frangible bullets designed specifically for shallow penetration will plug up when striking wood or wallboard and then penetrate like full metal jacket ammunition. We are aware of successful legal actions where an innocent party has been struck by a shot passing through a wall, but as we have proven, ALL of them will do that.
Grogan and Dove were the two FBI agents killed in the 1986 Miami shootout with a pair of bank robbers named Platt and Matix. Five other agents were wounded. Matix fired only one shot, which missed. Platt did all of the rest of the fighting against the FBI agents and arriving Metro-Dade police officers. He soaked up numerous bullet wounds, including several rounds of 12 gauge 00 buckshot that hit his legs as he wriggled out of a wrecked car, and one 9 mm hollowpoint round that entered through his arm early in the fight and stopped just short of his heart. Platt was pretty much everyone’s worst nightmare – ex-military, well-practiced, and unrelenting.
As a result of ammunition failures in Miami, the FBI undertook a program of extensive ammunition testing. The FBI concluded that a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistic gelatin was necessary for reliable incapacitation, and “18 inches is better.”
See also:
- Firearms Tactical report on the shootout
- FBI Report on 4/11/1986
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Firearmstactical is maybe one of the two or three best “No-BS” firearms sites out there.
Regarding “Overpenetration”: As was once said to me (and I’ve since passed on to others,) “Look around the room. Imagine the bad guy is in front of me. If I start shooting, are y’all gonna line up behind him, or are you just going to let those bullets keep going uninterrupted into empty space? Yeah, that’s what I thought.”
PS: The only real lesson from the Miami Shootout? “Some days you get the bear, and some days the bear gets you.”
I leave my shotgun loaded with slugs. Buckshot never made much sense to me.
Buckshot has greater spread. The bigger the wound area, the more rapid is blood pressure drop. The sooner it drops, the sooner he’ll pass out. It’s your gun, but I’ll take the buckshot.
slugs or buckshot? six of one half a dozen of the other. Unless the distance is least a good sized hallway the spread on buckshot will not be that great. However when it does hit the odds of each pellet taking a different path, increasing shock and damage, is greater. Try this, go out to your local shotgun range and set up the patterning board. step off about 12′ (the size of an average bedroom) and take a shot at the board. odds are the spread will be minimal or nonexistant, even from a cylinder choke. Keep in mind that most hunters, trap and sporting clay shooters use IC or Skeet (that is very minimal constriction) choke tubes now days due to shot wads. you may even see the shot wad hit the paper next to or as part of the pattern. So buck or slug, well I use a mix, but I make sure I am aiming the shotgun just as I would a rifle at close range.
I’ve heard that the NYPD had recuring problems with overpenetrating rounds striking bystanders when they were using FMJ ammo. I don’t know if this is covered in their SOP 9 report or not.
Hello,
I am doing a research paper on the FBI Miami shootout that occurred on April 11, 1986. I am trying to look up info on the offenders personal history and background , but I cannot find anything. Is there a website I can go to? Thank you
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