Les Jones

It cannot be a right if it involves enslaving others. Healthcare as a “right” involves forcing health-care workers to work for another’s benefit, in other words, slavery.

If our creator has endowed us with inalienable rights, which, as our constitution says, are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it would seem that health care would underpin the “life” thing.

Of course, if you believe anyone has a “right to life” then you must guarantee that their life is maintained; and that they are provided with health care. Or do we just let people die?

Is the “privilege” of health care not just a subset of the right to life? Do you treat only babies? Only children? DO you let their non-affluent parents die?
Do you ask them their political views and determine their sense of entitlement before you treat them? Do tell.

You’ve got some awful “I got mine, now screw you!” stuff going on here, Les.

And Wamp is an idiot.

(Ninth Stage, that’s just f*cking nuts.)
We live according to our ability to help each other survive. Without that compassion in operation every day, we would all slowly die off.

PS. Don’t break your leg, sucker! Someone might decide you didn’t need help or that you looked like a Randian or something. Helping people isn’t slavery and expecting people to help you or your children isn’t enslaving them.

“If our creator has endowed us with inalienable rights, which, as our constitution says, are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it would seem that health care would underpin the “life” thing”

If the Constitutional right to life implies a right to free health care then the right to the pursuit of happiness implies free hookers, booze, and cable TV.

“PS. Don’t break your leg, sucker! Someone might decide you didn’t need help or that you looked like a Randian or something. Helping people isn’t slavery and expecting people to help you or your children isn’t enslaving them.”

Then report to the nearest hospital at 6:00 am tomorrow. There are elderly patients with impacted colons who need your help. So happy to see you volunteer.

Always glad to see you’re such a compassionate man, Les.
I suppose you think the fire department should charge, cash on the spot, for calls to burning buildings and homes? For you, that’ll be cash!

Be careful what you wish for, son.
You pay taxes, you get services; that is the function of government.

Never ask anyone for help, even whey you’re old. Because you wouldn’t want to enslave anyone.

Further, stop for a second and consider the stupidity of this sentence: “Positive rights — such as a right to health care, an education, a job, etc… — cannot be achieved without limiting the liberty of individuals.”

How is public education an encumbrance upon my liberty? Your’n? Lets just do away with that crap, but only in Tennessee. Your kids (who will likely be attending taxpayer-funded public schools, an egregious limit upon your liberty) can study tree humping for all I care. But at least you’ll all be free there in the hills of Tennessee. When you need edumacated folk to come and cure your genital warts, remember your stance on slavery and liberty, because your community is going to suck so badly that nobody with any intelligence at will want to come live there. Hey, buttcha gots GUNS, lotsa lotsa GUNS.

Pul-eeeze, Les.
Get real.
Effete, mouth-breathing twits like Wamp and his brethern subcreatures in the congress such as Lindsey Graham and Turd Demint should be allowed to freely impose their stupidity on their constituents. It would be a laugh to see how long before they were removed from office. This isn’t an intellectual game. We’re free Americans and these ignorant greedy freaks are literally destroying our country with our apparent consent. Time to call bullsh*t on this nonsense.

That’s twice I’ve tuned in here to find you nodding in silent agreement to galatically stupid nonsense. Hopefully it won’t be a regular feature.

Hate to break it to you Giant Arab Killer, but the constitution does not say we have the right to Life, Liberty, or the Pursuit to happiness.

So before you start lecturing everyone on what the constitution does or doesn’t entitle a person to, you might want to try reading it.

“I suppose you think the fire department should charge, cash on the spot, for calls to burning buildings and homes?

That’s pretty close to what our fire department does. In my fire protection district you pay annual fire insurance (about $125 for a single family home). If they get a report of a fire they come out and extinguish it. Then they check their records. If you hadn’t paid for fire insurance they’ll send you a bill for about $4,000.

“You pay taxes, you get services; that is the function of government.”

I’d rather pay money and get services, leaving the government out of it. I didn’t ask the government for healthcare. Just the opposite: I wish they’d stay out of it. Government healthcare will have the efficiency of the DMV combined with the compassion of the IRS.

“How is public education an encumbrance upon my liberty?”

You have to send your kids to school, on the school’s schedule, to learn what the school deems they should learn. It’s tolerable, but don’t imagine there is no loss of liberty.

Furthermore, without a voucher system you don’t get to choose which school your children go to, unless you’re rich enough to pay all of your taxes and pay for private tuition.

“That’s twice I’ve tuned in here to find you nodding in silent agreement to galatically stupid nonsense. Hopefully it won’t be a regular feature.”

If you’re unhappy with the content you and your sense of entitlement are welcome to find a new source of free ice cream.

Lets take a look at the following quote.

“When you need edumacated folk to come and cure your genital warts, remember your stance on slavery and liberty, because your community is going to suck so badly that nobody with any intelligence at will want to come live there. Hey, buttcha gots GUNS, lotsa lotsa GUNS.”

That is kind of a wild swing. I don’t know anyone down here that wants to bring back slavery, especially Les. Slavery doesn’t work out economically, infringes on personal freedom, and you have to provide shelter,food,clothing, and health care to protect your investment.

I wonder if the government will send me free or subsidized guns to protect my second amendment rights.(Constitutional not Declaration of Independence(al))

“We live according to our ability to help each other survive.”
sounds awfully similar to
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”

To think of that as a good philosophy for government is insane. We, as rational, responsible adults should be living within our means. If that means I can’t afford to go to the doctor for every tiny ache and pain, then so be it. But it also means that those on the dole can’t go take up a doctor’s valuable time for the same.

I’m totally opposed to government interference with, well, just about everything.

Emergency healthcare is essentially a guarantee, provided you get to a hospital but that doesn’t mean it’s free, or a right. To think so is absurd. This is reality; nothing is free. In fact, the only reason I’d consider it a guarantee is simply based on that whole Hippocratic oath thing that doctors have to abide by.

If any of you think any of this makes me callous, then so be it; I don’t particularly concern myself with the opinion of random people on a blog. I don’t hesitate to help people out when they need it, but by that same token, it doesn’t mean I should be forced to. A forced volunteer is not a volunteer. Anyone going into any service-based vocation (such as medicine) isn’t expecting to get nothing out of it but personal satisfaction, and if they say they are, I bet they’ve also got some great beachfront property to sell you in Idaho.

[...] Jones on whether or not health care is a right*: If the Constitutional right to life implies a right to free health care then the right to the [...]

If our creator has endowed us with inalienable rights, which, as our constitution says, are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it would seem that health care would underpin the “life” thing.

“Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is from the Declaration of Independence moron.

Wow! Nice vitriol!

Here in NYC (yes, the bastion of heathen liberals!) there are these little newspaper boxes that have leaflets imploring the institution of a “Right to Housing” in the Constitution.

Laff!

Now, in a sense, you already have a ‘right to housing’ compliments of the first through tenth amendments to said document. You can go out in the woods somewhere, provided you’re not tresspassing (imfinging someone else’s rights 1-10) you can setup shop with a tent or lean-to or go right ahead and build yourself a cabin.

There ya go! “Right to Housing” satisfied. But it requires a bit of sweat equity on your part to make it happen. Something that a vast number of our citizenry have failed to grasp as of late.

I find it laughable there are people who attempt to justify ’sharing’** something with everyone that other’s have worked hard for on their own (perhaps not recently though :p). Attempting to even imply there should be a ‘right to healthcare’ is astounding especially coming from a Republican! He has to have some insurance company in his back pocket getting him to say such a thing (not that a Democrat wouldn’t have sooner or hasn’t already).

What’s depressing of our current situation is no one is addressing the “real problem” of our overall healthcare situation. It’s not the fact there isn’t care available but it’s the cost thereof. And why does it cost so much? Because we’ve insisted on a “free market” for insurance that’s placed profits ahead of the goal of any insurance organization:
Healthy participants

Remove the for-profit aspect of all health insurance companies and I can almost see the costs of healthcare drop. Focus on prevention and overall well-being and you’ll have less instances of acute treatment needs.

Sure you’ll have your chronic issues (drinking & smoking being the “Big 2″) and the emergency situations (what’s the vehicular accident per hour statistic up to now?) but shifting that focus would go a long way towards reducing overall costs.

And to the commentator who’s insisting “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is from the Constitution? I’ll just address you as “Rush L.” from now on.

Enjoy!
TinMan

** I know that sounds totally “anti-liberal” in a sense but in my view taxes should be levied in a progressive fashion but narrowly defined to serve certain goals: national defense, a retirement safety net (not the sole means), services for those less able to do so otherwise (young & elderly), and in-border protection & regulation services (fire/police, transportation maintenance, overall industry regulation ‘for the populace’ as opposed to ‘for the market’).

Once a governmet is able to accomplish those laudable goals only then could one consider getting into expanding that role of government into other facets of our lives while ensuring to not infringe on our previously enshrined rights.

Spoke like a true fence sitter!

TM

I loaned a fire extinguisher to a guy who was having car trouble - it was smoking hot and about to ignite. He hosed the engine when it lit-up.
Ever bought an ABC fire extinguisher lately? It’s about $40 and I said so…
I got neither gratitude for saving his ass nor $40. I got an entitlement mentality and the cold shoulder, so I flipped him off when I drove away. No more Mr. NiceGuy. Cash upfront or even just least an acknowledgment that I was being helpful, not surly Socialist ingratitude and help-on-demand.

The Preamble of the US Constitution states as its purpose, in part, to PROVIDE for the common defense, and to PROMOTE the general welfare. Notice it does not say to PROVIDE for the general welfare.

Healthcare, in other words, should be promoted and not provided for at taxpayer expense.

DrHenry, from our Constitution:
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

And I believe that the GENERAL welfare is provided for via warnings/constraints from the surgeons general and the FDA. It’s providing for the specific welfare that I have an issue with, and what people seem to be harping on with this “free healthcare” or “right to healthcare” business.

One day a poor pregnant woman came to A Conservative Republican.
“Oh, wise one” cried the woman. “My husband was killed in an auto accident. I am an illegal alien. I cannot support this child in my belly. I want to have an abortion. ”

The Conservative gazed upon the poor woman and replied “No. Woman. God loves every child..even the unborn. All human beings are created equal and are endowed at creation with certain fundamental rights among which is the right to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. Go and have your baby and forget about an abortion”

So the woman had her baby.
The baby was born gravely sick.
It needed a doctor and expensive medical care.
So the woman returned to the Conservative Republican
“Oh wise one. My baby is sick. But I am an illegal alien. My child needs expensive medical care. Can you help me.”
The Conservative lectured the woman sternly:
“You chose to come her illegally. If your child is sick and you cannot afford a doctor you have no one to blame but yourself. Health care is not a right.

The newborn child died after much suffering