Les Jones

No offense, but have you read any Punisher comics? That's kind of his whole schtick. He's just a bad guy that happens to hate other bad guys. He's not restrained by laws or ethics and punishes those deserving. I don't recall the innocent killed, unless you count the wife and I wouldn't consider her innocent. That'd be like saying Hilary Clinton doesn't know all the bad stuff her husband does.

Two things: one, the movie plays it both ways: the Punisher is a bad guy who does really awful things, but he's a good guy who deserves sympathy and admiration, which is what he gets from the neighbors in his apartment building. Clint Eastwood's character in Unforgiven is an example of a guy torn between good and evil. The Punisher is a guy who just gets a free pass on the evil things he does, because we're supposed to understand that he's the hero.

Two, the wife probably had knowledge of her husband's criminal affairs, but we never saw her participating in any crimes. Did she deserve death? Not in my opinion.

the wife may not have "desrved it", but the punisher punishes all. All i am going to say is tha this movie was a whole lot lighter than the orginal Punisher movie with dolf lundgren (the russian from rocky)

This movie would have been a lot better if they had given it more money, and time to film.

other wise it was a great moive.

but i liked man on fire better than the punisher.

The Punisher was a typical anti-hero from the 70s whose ethical flaws were really the point of the comic.

Let's go over the list:

1. Brooding but without revealing meaningful introspection. Check.

2. Purposeless save for base, nihilistic, selfish vengeance. Check.

3. Terrible writing. Check.

4. Dirty trench coat subbing for a decent costume. Check.

Yep. Chalk him up as another stupid meaningless character from the dismal morass of the 70s. Punisher is more out of step with the world of 2005 than Philip Marlowe.

A car chase with a boat trailer may be worth the price of admission though. Heh heh.

When I said bad writing I meant the comic. I haven't seen the movie. I'll have to check it out now though )

I liked the comics they came out in the 80's though, not the 70's. The movie should have been set in Manhattan and been a lot darker. They have to do some things to improve the character/series and apparently there will be another Punisher. Let's hope they get it right this time, sunny Tampa doesn't cut it and they need to bring in Microchip.

Also, a Spiderman vs Punisher movie would be good.

The only comic I still own that has Punisher in it is an old Spiderman issue. I do have to admit that Spiderman vs. Punisher is a decent standoff.

Spidey's idealism, tempered with youthful uncertainty, makes a stark contrast to Punisher. That's a little bit more fertile ground than just the ones where he's by himself.

(Gad - I'm 36 and still gabbing about comics.)

superheros are uniquly american.

name a european superhero?

Er, in the movie, Saint's wife is the one that specifically says to take out Castle's entire family. I fail to see how she's an innocent in any sense of the word.

Dave: really? I must have missed that. I watched the movie, but if I still had it I'd watch it again to try and catch that part.

Yes, the wife of the Bad Boss actually sanctioned the slaughter. That point was reaffirmed by the weasel dude who thought an slushie pop was burning his skin while hanging upside down and Punisher cooking his steak, albeit with an acetylene torch. (Wanted the smell of meat burning to reiterate the illusion of torture) which actually brings forward another point. He chose not to actually torture a guy for information, just psychologically torture hime.

I would re-echo the point about the comic. At one point I had all Punisher comics, all spin-offs, I even tracked his guest appearances on the other comics...

Bottom line, Punisher is not good or evil per se. He is just a guy who is looking to take out anybody who resembles the type who killed his family. By the way, original comic book plot had his wife and kid murdered for witnessing a murder by King Pins guys.