Les Jones

Blaming credit card companies for people who trash their finances with credit cards seems a lot like blaimg the gun manufacturers for violent crimes commited with guns.

The college students are ultimately adults, and I don't see how you can blame the credit card when they CHOOSE to run up ridiculous levels of debt.

Posted by: Stormy Dragon at July 29, 2005

I'm not blaming the credit card companies in the sense that I think we should sue them (as some crime victims have sued gun companies). I don't think it's a good idea for colleges to endorse credit card companies by letting them have events on campus.

I think most parents would much rather pay $20 a year or whatever in extra tuition to offset the loss of credit card advertising than to see their children drop out of school or be in debt for years because they got a credit card in college.

Note to self: only pay for your children's tuition if they agree to not get a credit card in college.

Posted by: Les Jones at July 29, 2005

If we're going to ban ALL companies from hawking products on campus, then yeah go ahead. But I don't see how you can allow Pepsi to come in and shill thier products, but not allow MBNA.

And as to your 'only pay for your children's tuition if they agree to not get a credit card in college' comment, that's probably the WORST thing you could do as a parent.

Trying to act as if there are no such things as credit cards will only assure that your kid ends up out in the world with no idea how to handle them. You should be gradually introducing them to dealing with banks and managing finances well before college. Start with a debit card attached to a checking account, move on to a credit card where you have access to their statements and can monitor their activities, etc.

Part of the reason these kids get into trouble with credits cards is that their parents have completely failed to teach them how to deal with money.

Posted by: Stormy Dragon at July 29, 2005

If we're going to ban ALL companies from hawking products on campus, then yeah go ahead. But I don't see how you can allow Pepsi to come in and shill thier products, but not allow MBNA."

Easy: just don't take their money.

"Trying to act as if there are no such things as credit cards will only assure that your kid ends up out in the world with no idea how to handle them."

Who said I was going to act as if there's no such thing as credit cards? I don't want to pay for my kid's tuition only to have them taking advances on their future earnings from MBNA. Obviously, as adults they're free to do just that. And just as obviously, if I'm an adult giving them tuition money I'm free to set the terms and they can take it or leave it.

Posted by: Les Jones at July 29, 2005

When I said 'I don't see how...' I wasn't questioning the feasibility of such a choice; I'm questioning the logic behind it. Why should credit card companies, of all the numerous companies seeking to use college campuses to market to students, be the only ones singled out for banning?

And I never said you couldn't set whatever terms you want on your child's tuition payment. But those are stupid terms. It does nothing to solve the problem of irresponsible credit card use, it just ignores the issue. And it doesn't even do that particularly well since it merely delays their acquistion of a credit card for a few years until they graduate. You'd be far better off using the leverage (while you still have it) to teach them how to use a credit card responsibly.

Posted by: Stormy Dragon at July 29, 2005

Credit card companies aren't the only ones singled out. Most campuses won't allow cigarette companies to set up displays and hand out free smokes.

"You'd be far better off using the leverage (while you still have it) to teach them how to use a credit card responsibly."

Define "responsible credit card use" for a college student with subsistence-level income whose parents are paying their tuition, and who may be years away from getting a job much above the poverty level.

Posted by: Les Jones at July 29, 2005

Define "responsible credit card use" for a college student....

It's the same as for anybody: pay it off every month. Yes, that takes discipline, but as I kept hammering the last time this discussion came up, these people are all adults. They're supposed to be able to act responsibly. They're allowed to vote, fercrissake. Posted by: Thibodeaux at July 30, 2005

"It's the same as for anybody: pay it off every month."

Yeah, but for me and a lot of my friends that didn't happen. It didn't compromise my academics, fortnately, but I would have preferred to avoid it.

Once someone hits 18 they're considered adults for most purposes, but that number isn't somehow magical. People's risk assessment skills don't completely develop until around age 25.

Posted by: Les Jones at July 31, 2005

Les, don't get me wrong. I sympathize with anybody who has a burden of debt. It's not fun. But you know what? It's not rocket science. Yeah, it takes discipline, but it doesn't take any special cognitive skills: if you spend more than you earn, you go into debt.

I got a credit card my Junior year (IIRC). Somehow I managed to go those two years of college, plus 7 years of grad school as a teaching assistant (talk about your subsistence-level income!), paying off my credit card at the end of the month, every month.

How did I do it? Simple: I used the card only for things I had to buy---gas and groceries. I ate Raamen noodles and PBJ. I didn't go to movies and clubs on the weekend, or Cancun for spring break. I didn't buy CDs and expensive clothes. In short, I spent less than I earned. I didn't have as much fun as some of the other folks, but I didn't go into debt.

Of course now I just sound like a braggart. Can I just ask you to perform a thought experiment? Your objection, as I take it, is:

1) that the schools have a conflict of interest because they are they profit from allowing the credit card companies to entice the students into risky behavior; and
2) that the students, while legally adults, don't have the foresight, experience, wisdom, whatever, to handle a line of credit responsibly.

Assuming I'm more or less on target there, I wonder what is your take on ROTC programs. If students aren't wise enough to handle the risks of a credit card---unsecured debt with mildly usurious interest rates---are they really wise enough to engage in a long-term commitment to serve in a low-paying, dangerous job for X number of years in exchange for tuition money?

If people aren't competent to assess the risk of a credit card until they're 25, I sure don't see how they're competent at age 18 to assess the risk of being blown up by an IED in Baghdad.

Posted by: Thibodeaux at July 31, 2005

Point 1 is correct, but Point 2 isn't. Some kids do, some kids don't. My point is that as a parent I'd prefer the college that I'm paying tuition to not entice my kid into credit card debt in exchange for a small amount of filthy lucre, which goes back to point 1. As a consumer of education, I'm allowed preferences, right?

In the case of the proposed Tennessee law (I don't know if it ever got signed into law or not) it only applied to state college campuses. These are, after all, taxpayer-funded instituions, and are expected to be responsive to taxpayer concerns, right?

Posted by: Les Jones at July 31, 2005

Personally, I think the state has no business funding education, but that's a whole 'nother argument. As for using the blunt force of law to implement your consumer preferences, no, I don't think you're entitled to do that, anymore than I think you're entitled to set the curriculum at UT. It's a shame you can't take your tax dollars somewhere else, but hey, that's the way so-cial-ism works.

And again, you keep acting like the students have no volition. The credit card companies "entice" the students into debt. And ROTC "entices" students to get killed.

Look, I can see this is an intensely personal issue for you. Maybe I should just drop it.

Posted by: Thibodeaux at July 31, 2005

Scratch that. I'm going to drop it because I'm repeating myself, and I think we're just on opposites here. I do see what you're saying, though.

Posted by: Thibodeaux at July 31, 2005

Not personal at all, much less intensely so. To be honest, I've been surprised this is so controversial.

"And again, you keep acting like the students have no volition."

I don't think I have. But I don't think it's helpful to have the state or their school endorsing the credit card companies. And as a parent, taxpayer, and potential consumer of that state education I'd prefer my kid not be marketed to at school by credit card companies.

Posted by: Les Jones at July 31, 2005

need to apply for credit card

Posted by: tuan b morseth at December 10, 2006

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